Stock stereo question (SE w/ PP 180W) [Archive] - B15sentra.net - Nissan Sentra Forum

: Stock stereo question (SE w/ PP 180W)


deliriou5
04-15-2002, 12:10 PM
I have a question about the so-called "180 watt" "premium" stereo that came with the SE perf. package. Does anyone know the RMS wattage on our stereo? 180 watts SOUNDS like a decent stereo, but my ears tell me it sounds like crap. There's absolutely no midrange clarity, so that I have to turn the volume so high that my ears start ringing from the tweeters' treble, and then the bass starts crackling from the subwoofers :mad:. Basically I need to know to find out what the minimum RMS wattage I need from an aftermarket upgrade to sound better than what's in there already.

SR20dee
04-15-2002, 12:21 PM
remember most 180w units are made to handle FOUR speakers. (or six) not 7 so basically cheapening it out. figure 180/5=36 so per channel 35 watts rms is probably 17 or 18


im guessing this.. becuase calculation would take time.. whats that??

SR20dee
04-15-2002, 12:26 PM
as far as a upgrade. a good 45 x4 deck would be good pioneer or premier or a clarion are suggested as far as the SUB. youre either gonna have to ditch it or splice it off the other speaker. i have not seen that many decks that support 7 speakers any one else found any?

CowboyDren
04-15-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by SR20dee
im guessing this.. becuase calculation would take time.. whats that??
...And it shows. The sub is self-amped, and the number of speakers never had anything to do with the power output of a system. The sub's amp alone probably accounts for 50% or more of that 180-watt rating.

As for the RMS, why bother? It's an oem system, and while it's a good oem system, it's still crap compared to $50/pr aftermarket speakers and a $100 deck. Get over it.

SR20dee
04-15-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by CowboyDren

...And it shows.
=P

.....

if you do end up replacing the system go for the gusto and get all 6 speakers replaced as well. most stock systems including our systems only can take 15 rms. like 30 watt peak or someshit. definately worth it to do it all at once.. hell maybe buys some freinds to help you out.

audio1der
04-15-2002, 01:34 PM
I'd venture that the sub sees about 80-100W (guffaw! snort! followed by uncontrollable laughter) The mids probably see somewhere between 15-25W each. In reality, we're talking about a 50W stereo, here. Dren's not kidding- anything would sound better.
You don't have to replace all 6 speakers. Many speakers these days are coax, and will drop right into the factory cutout, negating the need to replace the tweets inthe A-pillar. You don't want tweets there anyway, for several reasons.
-this puts them up too high
-very unequal path lengthe to your ears
-relies on the windshield and windows to reinforce sound.
-seperates the source for the mid/highs
You really want to keep the mid.tweet as close as possible to acheive a coincident point source. You'll thank me when you do this.

deliriou5
04-15-2002, 01:59 PM
Thanks for the info all... appreciate it. Looks like upgrading will cost me a decent load of cash. So I guess I'll just learn to live with my stereo.

BTW audio1der... I like your sig. Pewter is probably the best word to describe our cars' fugly color :). Definitely not silver, not quite gray...

SR20dee
04-15-2002, 02:05 PM
come on now i like the gun metal color.. that wasnt one of my options in either case.. i definately would have done black.. =) and seriously youd be suprised on how well ghetto speakers can do .. i had a full memphis system at one point in my old sentra.. i eventually below those and had to buy some pioneers .. i favored the pioneers better..

terich75
04-15-2002, 09:54 PM
In my experience dropping in aftermarket speakers will give you the most bang for the buck, depends a lot on if you can match the impedence of the factory head unit. problably 4 or 8 ohms. As people have argued on a bunch of other threads, most of the sound quality comes from the speaker, so as long as the head unit can put out enough power replacing the speakers will show a pretty big improvement.

CowboyDren
04-15-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by deliriou5
Looks like upgrading will cost me a decent load of cash. So I guess I'll just learn to live with my stereo.
What part is expensive, the speakers or the deck? Seriously, it's no worse than any other car on the road. Even putting coaxial speakers in the front (ignoring the component-style parts up front) and disconnecting the factory sub are a sound upgrade, so where's the problem?

No, it's not like you can buy MagiCaps and make your sound system 200% better than stock, but show me a car where something like that does happen...

Y2K SE
04-16-2002, 05:41 AM
The amp IS 80 Watts. The only difference between the standard 100Watt setup in the XE and GXE's is the additional of the A-Pillar tweeters (which the XE and GXE's may be able to add aftermarket using OEM parts from your local dealership - my Dad did this with his new Frontier), and the addition of an 80Watt amp and a 7th speaker.

terich75
04-16-2002, 09:20 AM
Y2k, Do you know where this amp is at? and if it has line level or preamp inputs? I was planning on replacing it but up to this point I didnt know there was an external amp I was just going to run line levels off of the line to the sub.

Thanks

CowboyDren
04-16-2002, 12:05 PM
Thanks for pointing that out, Rob. I had no idea about the rating of the XE/GXE sound systems.

Terich; you need to pay attention better. The amp is actually built into the basket of the sub, and takes a speaker-level input, tapped from the rear deck speakers. This system has been around for over two years, and is VERY well documented on this board. As a matter of fact, I just explained this (again) a few days ago.

To answer the question you're about to ask instead of researching, no, there is no easy upgrade path. You cannot run the existing sub with an ouboard amplifier, and you cannot just replace the sub. Running an ouboard amplifier with the existing cone would be a bad idea not only because of the impedence level of the sub, but also because it has a paper cone that already flexes under the power applied. Stock. If you want to replace the sub, though, I'd look at the Kicker RMB6, and you will need an aftermarket amp to power it.

Y2K SE
04-16-2002, 04:09 PM
Thanks for picking up the spare for me Josh. :)

To chime in on the unasked question, there is another, very recent thread exploring potential upgrades to the stock 180Watt system, including those using the factory rear deck mounting spots.

If it hadn't been 90 degrees today, I was going to pull apart the rear deck, take some photographs and make some notes, put everything back together, then do some shopping around. But its 90, so I'm not gonna! :)

InfernoSE
04-16-2002, 09:33 PM
While you're back there taking pictures, could you see how much clearance there is between the lateral bars in the trunk and the sub basket. It was 96 here today and i'm too lazy to walk outside:D.

terich75
04-16-2002, 10:25 PM
thanks cowboy, I guess I've missed the posts on this, I saw the one from a few days ago right after I posted this, I'm still thinking I'll run my line level inputs to my amp off of the rear speakers for now until I have the cash for a new head unit... I figure it can't hurt... thanks for your help though

deliriou5
04-16-2002, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by audio1der
I'd venture that the sub sees about 80-100W (guffaw! snort! followed by uncontrollable laughter) The mids probably see somewhere between 15-25W each. In reality, we're talking about a 50W stereo, here. Dren's not kidding- anything would sound better.
You don't have to replace all 6 speakers. Many speakers these days are coax, and will drop right into the factory cutout, negating the need to replace the tweets inthe A-pillar. You don't want tweets there anyway, for several reasons.
-this puts them up too high
-very unequal path lengthe to your ears
-relies on the windshield and windows to reinforce sound.
-seperates the source for the mid/highs
You really want to keep the mid.tweet as close as possible to acheive a coincident point source. You'll thank me when you do this.

Sorry if I sound really dumb, but I am totally clueless when it comes to car audio. So ideally I should scrap the tweeters and get two-way speakers to drop into the front speaker locations?

Also, would my sound sound better if I disconnected sub and tweeters, keeping everything else stock? i.e., would that send more power (and more clarity) to the stockers?

And I am surmising that coaxial is the same thing as two-way? Man I am confused!!! Ack... maybe I should just continue in my audio ignorance. When i started learning about performance stuff... look what happened to my sig :).

blackserspecv
04-16-2002, 11:04 PM
Coaxial means that the speakers are all mounted in the same basket. It means that if you have a 3 way 6 1/2 then all 3 speakers are mounted along with the woofer on the same basket. Components are all seperate, you get a woofer and a tweeter, or 3 way setups that have a woofer, a mid-range (still a woofer, just a small one), and a tweeter, of which you can mount anywhere. I hear the audio guru's claims of keeping the tweets very close to the woofers, which IS better, but I like the stock look, and with my setup, the phase correction is very good, so you can't really tell that they are seperate from each other 3 feet apart. the bad thing about coaxials in a badly set up system, or a cheap one (my favorite), is that if you have a passenger you lose a lot of the sound field if they are large people. They block the sound waves, hence the reason for the pillar mounted tweets (cheap good imaging, not great or impressive). Put a book in front of any speaker and you will know what I mean, legs do this. You will get great sound though if you dont haul many people around, so then get the coaxials. Or you could get the kicker models that let you disconnect the tweeter from the woofer and mount them where ever you want, then play with it and mount them where they sound the best (door, or pillar, YOU decide). If you disconnect the tweets in the stock system you will lose a ton of sound, it will sound like an old record player, if not worse, dull and no high resolution. IMO get good coaxials because they are cheap, get good components with good crossover networks if you want to hear ONLY the music and no noise from the car at all(I say this becuase they are usually better drivers that allow for higher sound output), or go all out and get custom installation to put the tweets close to the woofers for the best possible sound field with qaulity drivers. I say this because coaxial speakers are USUALLY inferior to the component sets. Oh and before I forget, ask the questions and Learn. Don't and you remain clueless.

Jorge Pineda
04-16-2002, 11:22 PM
I POSTED A LINK TO AN APC EMAIL ADDRESS SO THAT WE CAN BAND TOGETHER AND DEMAND ALTEZZAS AND OTHER MODS FROM APC AND OTHER MANUFACTURERS

CowboyDren
04-17-2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Y2K SE
Thanks for picking up the spare for me Josh. :)
Assuming you were talking to me (I'm Jon ;)), maybe we should do a radio show; "Rob and Jon: Speculations" :D Seriously, with my budget and schedule, taking shit apart, making notes, and putting it all back together is all I can do. And I have all the time in the world (theoretically) to do it in...

deleriou5: A good set of coaxial speakers would sound better than the front doors if you got a set that were around $75-125 on the street; generally speakers in that price range have stiff baskets, polymer cones, and higher-quality caps for their tweeters, making good, tight sound. What's good for the doors is good for the deck, too, and you could have more bass with cleaner response by putting same speakers in the rear deck and disconnecting the sub.

You have to understand how poor our OEM systems are in comparison to even a cheap aftermarket setup. By spending $300 on a deck, $200 on coaxials, and $100 on Dynomat and installation parts, you could have a system that absolutely blows the doors off of our system, and probably sounds better than the A/F system. Shift your budget around a little; spend $150 on the deck (lose MP3 and changer capability), $200 on components, $100 on coaxials, and $100 on installation parts, and you'd really be looking at a good system. Need boom? Budget anywhere from $150 to $300, and you're still out the door for waaaay less than a grand.

Y2K SE
04-17-2002, 06:04 AM
Originally posted by CowboyDren

Assuming you were talking to me (I'm Jon ;)), maybe we should do a radio show; "Rob and Jon: Speculations" :D Seriously, with my budget and schedule, taking shit apart, making notes, and putting it all back together is all I can do. And I have all the time in the world (theoretically) to do it in...

Sorry. I musta' picked the wrong message in Outlook.

I feel your pain on the schedule. I work full time, and sometime within the next year, I'll be going to school full time.

We could run the show from my basement. Oh, wait, I don't have a basement...

Y2K SE
04-19-2002, 10:14 PM
Well, since I was given the day off from work, I figured I'd do some serious investigating into the source of my rear-deck rattles. I found a couple things.

First off, we know that the difference in audio systems between the 100-watt base and 180-watt premium is two tweeters and a 80-watt amp with a 6.5" speaker. The base system should be 25 watts each speaker then, correct? If so, then why are the Panasonic factory rear-deck speakers rated at 15W Max?

Second, unplugging the amp/sub combination yields NO bass at all. The car sounded like the little paper speaker in my computer, even with the Pioneer's I've installed the back deck. I wonder if there's a way to correct that?

Third, I've got two sources for the rattles. The plastic, almost-translucent box hanging from the back deck on the right side. It has quite a bit of motion available. I imagine some sound-deadening material will take care of it. The second rattle was caused a broken bolt that is supposed to hold the amp/sub assembly to the back deck. I currently have a warranty replacement piece on order (hopefully it comes with replacement bolts).

CowboyDren
04-19-2002, 10:21 PM
Good work, Rob! The plastic piece; is that the cover for the center seat belt retractor? I think Mike (Heatwave SE) said something about that. I've not run by sub disconnected, but I wouldn't recommend that until the main speakers and deck were replaced. :)

kaytan
04-19-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by terich75
As people have argued on a bunch of other threads, most of the sound quality comes from the speaker...

In my personal experience, I installed a new aftermarket head unit... and the quality coming from the factory speakers is amazing... the only problem is they can't handle too much power so I can't crank up the volume... but that's just my personal experience... If you have the cash, get both the head unit and the speakers upgraded...

Cheers,

KayTan

CowboyDren
04-19-2002, 10:37 PM
Okay, Rob, I can't figure out how to disconnect the sub. The connector has two black wing-tabs on the side, but there's a white ring that goes all the way around the connector. How do I get the damned connector out?

Y2K SE
04-19-2002, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by CowboyDren
Okay, Rob, I can't figure out how to disconnect the sub. The connector has two black wing-tabs on the side, but there's a white ring that goes all the way around the connector. How do I get the damned connector out?

As far as I could tell, you squeeze the two black tabs in, pull the white piece up and over the black tabs, then those two pieces should slide up. Then there will be one more white tab to push in to release the harness.

It's a PITA. :(

Y2K SE
04-19-2002, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by CowboyDren
Good work, Rob! The plastic piece; is that the cover for the center seat belt retractor? I think Mike (Heatwave SE) said something about that. I've not run by sub disconnected, but I wouldn't recommend that until the main speakers and deck were replaced. :)

It it the same piece.

After looking at the whole setup in detail, I'm not sure what I want to do now. I really don't want to replace the head unit, but how easy will it be to run a new amp and sub using that head unit? Will it be worth the money? These are the questions I ask myself. I think if there was some decent bass coming out of the outboard rear-deck speakers, everything would be cool.

I suppose I should start doing my homework, eh? (Don't worry, I already am - I'm printing all of the picture's from Tusk's site right now. :))

CowboyDren
04-19-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Y2K SE
It's a PITA. :(
Way more of a PITA with a child's booster seat strapped into place; blocks the seatbacks from folding down. ;)

Y2K SE
04-19-2002, 11:17 PM
My Pioneer speakers. As you can see, they didn't fit. Note the missing fourth screw. I am replacing these at some point:
http://www.netwalk.com/~rberus/images/wwwpages/sentra/photos/20020419/20020325%20015.jpg


Top view of the plastic basket. Two bolts hold the seat belt retractor in, but nothing holds the basket down. It's just laying there.
http://www.netwalk.com/~rberus/images/wwwpages/sentra/photos/20020419/20020325%20017.jpg


Last picture before the batteries in the camera died (I always forget to put the batteries in the charger when I'm done with the camera). You can kinda see the top of the sub.
http://www.netwalk.com/~rberus/images/wwwpages/sentra/photos/20020419/20020325%20018.jpg

CowboyDren
04-19-2002, 11:27 PM
Dude, that speaker install effin' blows. I genuinely feel for you. Dumbass questions:
Are those 6.5" or 6.75" speakers? Have you considered going to a 6.5" speaker and using a spacer to correct the hole alignment issue? Are the stock holes too screwed up (no pun) for this to be an option?Just a few questions, no accusations. As far as that plastic bucket, that HAS to go. I'll probably rip my deck apart tomorrow and get that crap out of there, assuming that it doesn't rain or Caitlin decides not to take a nap. :)

I need to get some stock speakers back; I think I damaged mine with a botched capacitor install. :(

Y2K SE
04-19-2002, 11:49 PM
They were advertised as oversized 6.5"'s. The only reason they are still in there is so I can verify off the factory speakers if the holes on new speakers will match up without having to pull the entire deck apart.

The part # stamped on my OEM speakers is 28156-7Z000.

Heatwave SE
04-20-2002, 12:07 AM
Well i tore apart the entire audio system to find all the problems.

First of all the 180 watt system is a bit of a joke to me. When i first got the car it sounded okay for a little bit. About a month after driving the car around i developed major rattles in the rear, and my speakers sounded dead to me. So i went out bought some new rear speakers, which i have to this point. They are regular 6 1/2 sony speakers. I really did not have any problems at all getting them to stay.

After putting new speakers in the sound was a lot better from the rear, but the speakers still sounded underpowered to me. So i got a new HD. That fixed my problem a lot.

THen i got sick of the horrible sub we get in 180w system. Having the same problem as jon(cowboydren) getting the thing unhooked, i just ripped it out.

Over time the rattles in the back bugged me so i took out the Sub all the possible attachements on the rear deck. I have no middle seat belt thing. THat caused major problems with sound. THen i put some Xtreme dynamat and now NO MORE RATTLES.

The rear deack is very thin and cause lots of resonance.
The factory system is claimed to be 180w but that is not Watts RMS. I figured it out one time but im not sure how it went exactly. THe front speakers and tweeters aren't to bad, but still need to be replaced by my standards.

BTW Y2kSE....when i unhooked my sub in the rear my speakers still had plenty bass, actually they have so much that i put bass blockers on them.

CowboyDren
04-20-2002, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by Y2K SE
They were advertised as oversized 6.5"'s.
...That would be a 6.75" speaker. If I were you, I'd get 6.5" speakers next time and use a spacer-adapter to get the size right.

djtrickz
04-20-2002, 02:25 AM
hey... i dunno if anyone said it already (i don't feel like reading everything), but if no one did yet... the rattle's coming out of the little gears in the seatbelt case thing... not just the white bucket. only if you're really bugged about it... caus i put these yellow sponge things and they took out some of the rattle... oooook. later.

- patrick J.